conversation of oct 20-21

nemoObviscae (11:24:18 PM): http://saints.sqpn.com/saintj31.htm I like this for the road order

nemoObviscae (11:24:35 PM): a lessor known fictional saint that serves our need.

rout of coyotes (11:25:12 PM): Perfect. Want that deep middle ages feel.

nemoObviscae (11:25:32 PM): and it adds a good element of repentance in the mix.

nemoObviscae (11:26:00 PM): he accidentally killed his parents

rout of coyotes (11:26:35 PM): Great story!

nemoObviscae (11:27:16 PM): and i do agree

nemoObviscae (11:27:26 PM): I do not want our game to become a written heresy

rout of coyotes (11:28:41 PM): No. Want Catholics to enjoy the similarities, not hate the innaccuracies.

nemoObviscae (11:29:13 PM): yeah, if anything I want to inspire learning

rout of coyotes (11:29:17 PM): plus I don't want to tell tales about historical figures, that put them in an undeserved light.

nemoObviscae (11:29:18 PM): not condemnation.

nemoObviscae (11:29:44 PM): so by policy we use moslty defrocked saints?

rout of coyotes (11:30:27 PM): No... just need to fictionalize the recognized ones and change names.

nemoObviscae (11:30:41 PM): ok for the court I want to use This guy

nemoObviscae (11:30:44 PM): ok

nemoObviscae (11:31:04 PM): patron saint of courtiers and difficult marriages

nemoObviscae (11:31:11 PM): lol

rout of coyotes (11:31:36 PM): So funny.

nemoObviscae (11:32:15 PM): I don't think there would be many specialty clerics of his order.

nemoObviscae (11:33:01 PM): they would be seen as an ironic testiment to the difficult marriage of church and state.

rout of coyotes (11:33:12 PM): yes.

rout of coyotes (11:33:30 PM): They would be diplomats exclusively

nemoObviscae (11:33:31 PM): and have a nice sideline as marriage counsolers.

rout of coyotes (11:33:37 PM): heh!

nemoObviscae (11:34:13 PM): Henry the 8th could have used one.

nemoObviscae (11:34:14 PM): lol

rout of coyotes (11:34:33 PM): He could of used a good kick in the ass...

rout of coyotes (11:34:57 PM): Ann Boleyn was the right woman.

rout of coyotes (11:35:30 PM): The best marriage he ever made, and he has her beheaded.

rout of coyotes (11:35:34 PM): Jackass.

nemoObviscae (11:35:59 PM): for her niece I think

rout of coyotes (11:38:02 PM): so, order for administration, good Idea.

nemoObviscae (11:38:13 PM): yeah

nemoObviscae (11:38:18 PM): Grummarus it is?

nemoObviscae (11:38:30 PM): lets leave the apostoles out if it

rout of coyotes (11:38:36 PM): I thought he was for diplomats?

nemoObviscae (11:38:44 PM): courtiers in general.

rout of coyotes (11:39:13 PM): we'll expand his story, perhaps, or add another saint to it.

nemoObviscae (11:39:25 PM): we can tack on a bit to it

nemoObviscae (11:39:32 PM): not an unprecidented act

rout of coyotes (11:39:57 PM): indeed not

nemoObviscae (11:40:04 PM): and no need to add much

nemoObviscae (11:40:27 PM): he did attempt to be dimplomatic with his wife about the servants.

rout of coyotes (11:41:20 PM): truly

nemoObviscae (11:41:47 PM): so we are just expanding slightly upon the truth

nemoObviscae (11:42:02 PM): I mean the dragon in the story of Saint George was an angry cult

rout of coyotes (11:42:03 PM): "truth"

rout of coyotes (11:42:09 PM): Really?

nemoObviscae (11:42:15 PM): yup

nemoObviscae (11:42:34 PM): they were a group that were killing Christians.

rout of coyotes (11:42:39 PM): ouch.

nemoObviscae (11:43:25 PM): most of the monsters in Bible were like that, real entities that had to be talked about in another way. At least that is what I was taught.

rout of coyotes (11:44:19 PM): Interesting perspective. Yes I believe metaphor was employed extensively, for the bible writers were mostly highly educated.

nemoObviscae (11:44:37 PM): I would have actually prefered the scaly beast, at least it is being true to its nature. The cultists were just being cruel.

rout of coyotes (11:44:47 PM): true.

nemoObviscae (11:45:03 PM): They were demanding tribute from a village, usually a goat or something like that.

nemoObviscae (11:45:16 PM): they ran out of goats to spare and had to give a young woman.

nemoObviscae (11:45:33 PM): George showed up on his horse and challenged them.

rout of coyotes (11:45:44 PM): That is good stuff.

nemoObviscae (11:45:48 PM): Died in the process but was able to spare her.

rout of coyotes (11:45:59 PM): Oh, Perfect!

rout of coyotes (11:46:05 PM): Ideal!

nemoObviscae (11:46:26 PM): thats why he got on so well with the English knights.

nemoObviscae (11:46:35 PM): they understood him.

rout of coyotes (11:46:37 PM): He is not only the patron saint of England, but also of Russia.

rout of coyotes (11:46:46 PM): Bet you didn't know that!

nemoObviscae (11:47:00 PM): not going to say I did.

rout of coyotes (11:47:02 PM): Russian knights were pretty damn serious too.

nemoObviscae (11:47:17 PM): and they have 2 different orders also.

rout of coyotes (11:47:33 PM): Cool.

nemoObviscae (11:47:39 PM): Andrew and Peter I think.

nemoObviscae (11:47:52 PM): with the order of Peter being the highest order.

rout of coyotes (11:47:56 PM): ok.

rout of coyotes (11:48:14 PM): Back to your world, who takes care of the poor?

nemoObviscae (11:48:50 PM): do we want to fold them into the great order of saint Julian?

nemoObviscae (11:48:56 PM): he did do some of that.

nemoObviscae (11:49:05 PM): caring for leppers and all.

rout of coyotes (11:49:14 PM): ehhh...

nemoObviscae (11:49:34 PM): naa I like Jude

nemoObviscae (11:49:37 PM): We need him

rout of coyotes (11:49:43 PM): poor and orphans

nemoObviscae (11:51:14 PM): we have ophans pretty well coverd with st nick.

rout of coyotes (11:51:20 PM): oh yeah!

rout of coyotes (11:51:23 PM): forgot.

nemoObviscae (11:51:37 PM): I like there being an order of knights of saint nick

rout of coyotes (11:51:43 PM): so coed order for St. Nick?

nemoObviscae (11:51:50 PM): I think they should paint thier armor red.

nemoObviscae (11:51:58 PM): no problems there.

rout of coyotes (11:52:03 PM): Foster moms and dads

rout of coyotes (11:52:20 PM): not with eachother, just filling the roles.

rout of coyotes (11:52:57 PM): I like that.

nemoObviscae (11:53:39 PM): Nick does both actually

nemoObviscae (11:53:51 PM): he is the patron saint of pawnbrokers

rout of coyotes (11:53:57 PM): One for poor and farming?

rout of coyotes (11:54:20 PM): church run co-ops?

nemoObviscae (11:54:24 PM): hang on

nemoObviscae (11:54:34 PM): that sounds like the cistercians.

rout of coyotes (11:54:55 PM): It would be an important order.

rout of coyotes (11:55:28 PM): feed the hungry, give a place to the destitute, improve agriculture.

nemoObviscae (11:55:40 PM): that really sounds like them

rout of coyotes (11:55:46 PM): Cool!

nemoObviscae (11:55:57 PM): they were BIG into ag

nemoObviscae (11:56:07 PM): and improving ag tech

nemoObviscae (11:56:12 PM): and building things

rout of coyotes (11:56:15 PM): It would fill a huge need in this reeling society.

rout of coyotes (11:56:52 PM): what with the decimation of the populace and the economy.

rout of coyotes (11:57:11 PM): excuse me , halving of the populace.

nemoObviscae (11:57:14 PM): very true

nemoObviscae (11:57:18 PM): lol

nemoObviscae (11:57:52 PM): the cictercians were very strict with the rules

rout of coyotes (11:58:07 PM): excellent society rebuilders!

nemoObviscae (11:58:23 PM): yeah, they were sent into places of barbarism

nemoObviscae (11:58:28 PM): to re civlilze places

nemoObviscae (11:59:10 PM): thier abbys were always in remote places

nemoObviscae (11:59:15 PM): (reading the wiki)

rout of coyotes (11:59:34 PM): I can see them in your world with what are essentially agriculture schools and poorhouses combined in each earldom or duchy.

rout of coyotes (12:00:00 AM): how many counties in a larger lords domain?

nemoObviscae (12:00:11 AM): I dunno

nemoObviscae (12:00:18 AM): I have no reference for that

nemoObviscae (12:00:21 AM): say 3?

nemoObviscae (12:00:35 AM): thats a lot of land

rout of coyotes (12:01:13 AM): Well the Angles called them shires instead of Counties, but the Normans changed that.

rout of coyotes (12:01:48 AM): different governance.

nemoObviscae (12:01:56 AM): I like Duty for that nomenclature

nemoObviscae (12:02:09 AM): it is his Duty to his King and to his people

rout of coyotes (12:02:23 AM): 1county= 1duty

rout of coyotes (12:02:25 AM): ?

nemoObviscae (12:02:33 AM): 3 counties =1 duty

rout of coyotes (12:02:39 AM): Ah!

rout of coyotes (12:02:42 AM): yes.

rout of coyotes (12:02:45 AM): good.

nemoObviscae (12:03:04 AM): lets use knigts fee as a county

rout of coyotes (12:03:11 AM): ok.

nemoObviscae (12:03:11 AM): or should a night be that high up?

nemoObviscae (12:03:16 AM): a county is a lot of land

rout of coyotes (12:03:27 AM): In West Texas it sure is.

nemoObviscae (12:03:31 AM): LOL

rout of coyotes (12:03:31 AM):

nemoObviscae (12:03:40 AM): But you raise a point

nemoObviscae (12:03:52 AM): I think it should be judged by the ouput and not the size

rout of coyotes (12:04:41 AM): half days ride = length of a County?

rout of coyotes (12:04:58 AM): or less,

rout of coyotes (12:05:09 AM): just need a measure.

nemoObviscae (12:05:19 AM): All of west TX could be one county and produce the same Ag output as a smaller section of land in the central areas

rout of coyotes (12:05:21 AM): half day's walk?

nemoObviscae (12:05:33 AM): well I like the idea from the magna carta

rout of coyotes (12:05:39 AM): ok, output rather than size.

nemoObviscae (12:05:47 AM): we could do it either way

rout of coyotes (12:05:48 AM): better, fairer taxation.

nemoObviscae (12:06:05 AM): but the Magna Carta stated it as being what an ox could plow in a day

nemoObviscae (12:06:22 AM): that was a section of land

rout of coyotes (12:06:52 AM): ok... couple of acres?

rout of coyotes (12:07:04 AM): fuck, I don't know.

nemoObviscae (12:07:10 AM): modern definition is something like a sqare mile.

rout of coyotes (12:07:19 AM): I can handle that.

rout of coyotes (12:07:33 AM): how many sections in a Fee?

nemoObviscae (12:07:53 AM): actually its 640 acres

nemoObviscae (12:07:57 AM): thats a lot of damn land

rout of coyotes (12:08:07 AM): square mile?

nemoObviscae (12:08:11 AM): a section

rout of coyotes (12:08:17 AM): ah.

rout of coyotes (12:08:30 AM): yeah it is.

nemoObviscae (12:08:48 AM): a section= a sqare mile

nemoObviscae (12:08:50 AM): I was right

nemoObviscae (12:08:51 AM): ok

nemoObviscae (12:09:04 AM): cuz thats about what we own out there.

rout of coyotes (12:09:11 AM): Damn.

rout of coyotes (12:09:42 AM): call that a fee?

nemoObviscae (12:09:51 AM): I am ok with that.

nemoObviscae (12:10:18 AM): the old formula used 32 fees to a township

rout of coyotes (12:10:21 AM): Ok. established A Knight's Fee is 1 square mile.

nemoObviscae (12:11:00 AM): that puts 1 lord over about 32 knights

rout of coyotes (12:11:23 AM): 1 Duty = 32 fees.

nemoObviscae (12:12:04 AM): if we do it the other way

nemoObviscae (12:12:23 AM): its an area of land that produces about 20lbs sterling per season.

rout of coyotes (12:13:04 AM): meh, the physical is more important to adventurers.

nemoObviscae (12:13:16 AM): interestingly enough

nemoObviscae (12:13:51 AM): the fee that the pesants payed to work the knights fee was about 1/5th the value of the fee.

rout of coyotes (12:14:26 AM): Responsibly administrated Feudalism works.

nemoObviscae (12:14:40 AM): okes let me post that.

rout of coyotes (12:15:02 AM): Square mile= 640 acres =Knight's Fee

32 Knight's Fees = 1 Duty.

nemoObviscae (12:16:08 AM): ok

rout of coyotes (12:16:12 AM): Btw, can't find your blog info

rout of coyotes (12:16:23 AM): I'll copy it down this time.

nemoObviscae (12:16:32 AM): http://samwyz.blogspot.com/

nemoObviscae (12:16:40 AM): just bookmark it.

nemoObviscae (12:16:47 AM): thats what I did

nemoObviscae (12:17:11 AM): oh, to edit, its my email address and the password is s3renity.

rout of coyotes (12:17:40 AM): that's what I was looking for.

rout of coyotes (12:18:40 AM): ok.

nemoObviscae (12:20:17 AM): extrapolating out.

nemoObviscae (12:20:42 AM): if each pesant pays 1/5 a nights fee per season then it takes about 5 families to work a fee.

rout of coyotes (12:21:04 AM): yes.

nemoObviscae (12:21:31 AM): unless they have lots of productive members of the family.

rout of coyotes (12:21:41 AM): 5 sets of 8 people including at least one invalid?

rout of coyotes (12:22:01 AM): or just oldster?

nemoObviscae (12:22:10 AM): I would think that a family of 8 would be kind smallish.

nemoObviscae (12:22:17 AM): with 15 being big

rout of coyotes (12:22:26 AM): Well, disease, Sam.

nemoObviscae (12:22:35 AM): and poligamists having about 20

nemoObviscae (12:22:40 AM): or more.

rout of coyotes (12:22:43 AM): headpalm

nemoObviscae (12:22:49 AM): ?

nemoObviscae (12:23:05 AM): oh

rout of coyotes (12:23:07 AM): polygamy? really Sam?

rout of coyotes (12:23:28 AM): ok. just kinda anachronistic.

nemoObviscae (12:23:53 AM): right, I mean it was fine and good religous practice well after Christ came.

nemoObviscae (12:24:27 AM): for Jews anyway.

rout of coyotes (12:24:46 AM): Given. Only Elders and Deaconi needed to be the husband of just one wife

nemoObviscae (12:25:16 AM): but most families don't work that way.

rout of coyotes (12:25:26 AM): Yeah.

nemoObviscae (12:25:35 AM): and I think that the church would kinda look the other way when things worked out that way.

rout of coyotes (12:25:47 AM): So rare but not unheard of.

nemoObviscae (12:26:01 AM): and perhaps send them a priest of Saint G.

rout of coyotes (12:26:16 AM): to the township at least.

nemoObviscae (12:26:21 AM): yeah

nemoObviscae (12:26:32 AM): you know that there are going to be some real hens in that place.

nemoObviscae (12:26:33 AM): lol

rout of coyotes (12:26:46 AM): good practice to have one each township.

rout of coyotes (12:26:53 AM): just because.

nemoObviscae (12:27:02 AM): true, but not many to go around

nemoObviscae (12:27:14 AM): would not be supprised to see them travel.

rout of coyotes (12:27:21 AM): They would be the ones to perform the marriages.

nemoObviscae (12:27:45 AM): every cleric can marry, its the afterwards that they care about.

rout of coyotes (12:28:13 AM): ok. but the duties of the position may make that more rare.

nemoObviscae (12:29:23 AM): I would tend to think that a lecture from SG would be manditory for every aspairant.

rout of coyotes (12:29:44 AM): they would have a circuit of townships, and take on up to two acolytes.

rout of coyotes (12:30:00 AM): maybe three, for theme's sake.

nemoObviscae (12:30:02 AM): lol and they would bring some poor bastard and his wife with them

nemoObviscae (12:30:22 AM): sorta like a chacelry play version of jerry springer.

rout of coyotes (12:30:38 AM): you are a sick man. I like it.

nemoObviscae (12:31:07 AM): the would seek out the most mismatched couple and prod them into it.

nemoObviscae (12:31:09 AM): lol

rout of coyotes (12:31:51 AM): ha! and provide free counseling as repayment, and set someone to watch their interests for the duration of the tour.

rout of coyotes (12:32:13 AM): sorry, donation free counseling.

nemoObviscae (12:32:36 AM): exactly

nemoObviscae (12:32:49 AM): but they would always be willing to accept from the crowd

rout of coyotes (12:33:01 AM): It's live punch and judy!

nemoObviscae (12:33:07 AM): exactly

nemoObviscae (12:33:08 AM): lol

nemoObviscae (12:33:16 AM): and church to boot

rout of coyotes (12:33:25 AM): medieval audiences would eat it up with both hands!

rout of coyotes (12:33:43 AM): Padded boffer bats!

nemoObviscae (12:33:43 AM): too true

rout of coyotes (12:34:09 AM): no, pillows!

nemoObviscae (12:34:19 AM): you would have to have some guard on hand to make sure they don't kill each other.

rout of coyotes (12:34:45 AM): like stuffed bags of mown grass

nemoObviscae (12:35:05 AM): Ow hay.

nemoObviscae (12:35:12 AM): hay is kinda sharp dude.

rout of coyotes (12:35:25 AM): something non lethal, at least...

nemoObviscae (12:35:30 AM): well down pillows

nemoObviscae (12:35:39 AM): or bags of sawdust

nemoObviscae (12:35:44 AM): its dusty but non leathal

nemoObviscae (12:35:50 AM): and cheap to produce

rout of coyotes (12:35:51 AM): expensive stuff, dude the down.

nemoObviscae (12:35:56 AM): yeah

rout of coyotes (12:36:15 AM): or powdered chalk!

nemoObviscae (12:36:27 AM): that can get very heavy but yes

rout of coyotes (12:36:28 AM): big clouds, funny white spots!

nemoObviscae (12:37:00 AM): well yeah, but I think this is going a bit too far from the cautionary tale to just plain slapstick.

rout of coyotes (12:37:24 AM): sorry. just not much difference to a medieval audience.

nemoObviscae (12:37:34 AM): true

rout of coyotes (12:37:49 AM): little bags.

nemoObviscae (12:37:53 AM): ok

rout of coyotes (12:39:22 AM): As a starter of the show, message about how to handle your spouse, then the boffing, and ends with application of the message.

rout of coyotes (12:40:00 AM): And a blessing of the married couples who remain for the entire service.

nemoObviscae (12:40:51 AM): I would start with a cautionary tale of woe about how suffering a bad marriage is a form of contrition ect

nemoObviscae (12:41:28 AM): then the exhibit with questions from the audience.

rout of coyotes (12:42:05 AM): we can write up more detail for that in a section devoted to religious life.

nemoObviscae (12:42:10 AM): I am.

nemoObviscae (12:42:15 AM): its called mother church and you.

Economy

1 knights fee = about 1 square mile of land producing an agricultural output sufficient to support one knight. Each peasant pays a fee equal to about 1/5 a knights fee per year. It takes about 5 families to work a fee.

Square mile= 640 acres =Knight's Fee

32 Knight's Fees = 1 Lord's Duty.

It is traditional to petition a landlord for a small token for a girls dowry when she turns 14

Roles of Animals

Some common domestic animals have spiritual significance

Black Retrievers are agents of death. In most villages they are welcome agents of death. Priests are not always around when you need them, and in a pinch a black lab will do just as well. They (the dogs) are aware of this and view the job with joy and service. Every animal has something of a soul. it may not be in the same nature as a human soul, but they do have souls. Retrievers carry the soul of a beast back to the Great Hunter (commonly held to be St. Harold), while carrying the body of the creature to the human hunter. In truth every dog can carry a soul. most allow the Blacks the honor of the job.
Pointers lead the way to death, it is thought that they know every souls expiration date.

if you defeat a lion, wolf, or bear in unarmed single combat it will follow you till either of you dies, and they are not permitted to allow you to come to harm by members of its species. Lions lend you strength and bravery, Bears are protectors and healers, Wolves are teachers and leaders.

Cats are engaged in an ongoing struggle against invisible undead. Some cats feel that it would be easier if they killed everyone and forced the dogs to take them home.


Mice are somewhat seen as God's health inspectors. If your house is clean you will never see one, they visit then leave. If your home is a mess, they come in droves and leave warnings everywhere. (in the only way that a mouse can warn a human, they poo on unclean things)

Orders of the church

Saint Althea of Solace Patron: Saint Althea of Solace Mission: Patron of the afflicted souls burdened with inner turmoil, emotional distress, spiritual crises, and addiction. Her clerics offer healing and support, empowering individuals to make life changes necessary for lasting recovery. Roles: Provides counseling, support groups, and spiritual practices aimed at healing inner wounds, promoting emotional resilience, and supporting recovery from addiction. Activities: Through prayer and guidance, clerics of Saint Althea facilitate spiritual and emotional healing, offering tools for self-reflection, coping strategies, and the courage to pursue lasting change. Legacy: Known for her empathy, wisdom, and ability to bring peace to troubled minds, Saint Althea is revered for her advocacy for mental and emotional well-being, addiction recovery, and spiritual renewal within the community. Saint Althea's clerics possess the ability to facilitate healing from addiction, yet emphasize that true recovery requires personal commitment and lifestyle changes from the afflicted individuals. Here's a summary of the Orders of the Church based on the information provided: Order of Saint Nicholas the Protector Mission: Protect the weak against the strong, children from harm and evil, and assist orphans and the poor. Benefit: Members add high constitution to the Armor Class (AC) of those they protect, enhancing their defensive capabilities. Order of Saint George the Brave Mission: Protect the virtue of women and defeat monsters and vile cultists. Role: Paladins of this order are champions known for their bravery and dedication to combating supernatural threats. Order of Saint Julian the Hospitaller Mission: Protection of travelers, providing hospitality, food, and shelter. Roles: Paladins serve as roadwardens and hospitallers, ensuring safe passage and offering aid to those in need. Members: Male clerics are known as Friars, and female clerics as Nuns. They maintain a strict ritual of cleanliness and hospitality at their chapterhouses and monasteries. Hospitality: Maximum stay is 3 days at a chapterhouse and 7 days at a monastery, emphasizing temporary assistance and care. Order of Saint Grummarus Patron: Patron saint of difficult marriages, courtiers, and diplomats. Mission: Dedicated to promoting the sanctity of marriage, resolving marital conflicts, and providing guidance to courtiers and diplomats. Activities: Members engage in counseling, educational programs, and public demonstrations to educate on the virtues of a harmonious marriage.

Mother church and you

Mother Church is one of the 3 estates of power within the Empire of Mann.

Every 3rd day is a holy day with 3 services Morning, noon, and evening prayer, and an optional midnight service for clergy. There are 30 services run every ten days and there are 4 cycles of 3 months set as seasonal services. The Order of Saint Grummarus has a traveling motivational show to promote good marriages and show the pain of bad ones. they seek out the most mismatched couples and bring them along to exhibit to the faithful the pain of a bad marriage. The shows start with a cautionary tale of woe about how suffering a bad marriage is a form of contrition ect.